So, it`s been a couple of months since my last update. I have been really busy enjoying myself this Summer and I gots tons of stories to tell, but I want to finish this thing with Kiwako. The blog post before this is a post I made back in the beginning of July in the forum that I put up here. I realize how useful this blog thing is in terms of remembering specific situations I've been in and how I've dealt with them.

Kiwako came riding in 10 minutes late with her friend... I knew she was going to throw some kind of curve ball at me cause for her to do exactly as she's told doesn't exactly fit in with the way she does things. Bringing a friend was an ingenious move on her part, but bringing a friend who was maybe even a little bit hotter than she and so willing to jump ship after hello wasn't what she wanted. To be honest if Kiwako wasn't there there would have been no stopping me and Kiwako's friend "Mizuki".

After this "date" two days later I received I message asking when I was going to come back. I told her if I get some more "work" in the area, I would be back soon. I like to try to setup at least two dates over one or two days before I head back out. Sometimes scheduling is difficult, but usually it can be done. About three weeks later I get everything set back up and head back out. The first date is Kiwako who is 20 and the second date is "Yuriko" who is 28. Again, I know that even though Kiwako knows she was whipped she is still going to have to try to mix up the plan of our get together. This time I asked her to bring Mizuki cause I knew she was going to anyway. I knew she was going to because probably because Mizuki really wanted to hangout again and also because Kiwako can change strategy without bringing a new friend and starting from scratch. I was considering bringing a friend, but to be honest, while I find this Young Dude I met in the town to be incredibly interesting and JLPT 1 he just isn't at the same level as the three of us. I'm sure the girls would have a great time with him, but come closing time he doesn't have the physical closing power for these two. I'll do it by myself again.

Kiwako's mix up plan is to come early and head to where she knows I like to hangout. Now that's good shit. I won't lie, I was surprised as hell to see her walk in the door while I happened to be socializing with a new friend I was trying to make. Not much into it yet, but I knew I couldn't be in a better place to handle a situation like this. I said hello to them and asked them if they'd rather hangout here than where they choose to go. They have to bend on this cause if they don't I get social proofed to the stars with this new girl cause they'll be seen as pulling me away. They say sure, and look at me like "what you gonna do now white boy?". They've been to this bar a couple times, but I don't think they knew there was an upstairs... I ask the master to set us up upstairs on the couch and HE takes the two girls away to show them upstairs. I stay where I am. I got about 15 minutes till we were scheduled to meet and now they are upstairs waiting for me... I finish my beer, wrap up our chat, and give the girl my mail. Now I am heading up stairs...

They have to bend on this cause if they don't I get social proofed to the stars with this new girl cause they'll be seen as pulling me away.

hahah dude I loved this. In future I may intentionally bring some girl to have a "coffee date" at the rendezvous point for the next date.

Though I must ask, surely Kiwako and friend went straight upstairs to talk about what a playboy you are, no?

RC

It depends on the way you play it. At this point in time I have no loyalty to them whatsoever outside of our scheduled meeting time. Outside of that time I can do what I want. In all actuality I wasn't doing anything wrong or even out of the ordinary. My beer is at the bar and I am sitting there socializing. If they think they are gonna drop in on me and then dictate to me what's gonna happen next, they'll be sipping drinks just the two of them somewhere else.

Japanese girls, in my opinion anyway, don't pass up too many opportunities to slight men..., they do it much more so than Western women. Especially ones you've just met. Even getting asked if you have a girlfriend in a alot of cases is a way for them to try to kick a rung off your ladder. That question should never be met with a straight answer. Especially if it is asked by a girl you just met. Yes, of course, sometimes it's harmless, but if she is asking that question, it could be because she's getting bored and feels like she has to take over the convo, or she is trying to push you around. Either way entertain the question but don't answer it directly. Let her know she isn't nearly in the position where she can ask that question. The answer should be something like "Who the fuck are you, you think you can ask me that?!" Except expressed much more politely with a huge 100% smile.

The thing about these two (Kiwako and Mizuki) is that Mizuki is totally on my side. I got the vibe from her that she is concerned that Kiwako and her man man-handling ways are gonna mess everything up. If I could have over heard their conversation I am sure it would have went something like this... Kiwako "What should we do?" Mizuki "What do you mean?" Kiwako "We are going to sit here and wait?" Mizuki (playing dumb until she can change the subject) "Why you don't want to eat here?"... I'm sure Mizuki picked up the menu and said something like "this looks delicious!". Even if they did talk about me in terms of what a dick I was, (which wasn't the case at all, I was a bit surprised, but I was more happy to see them than anything else and I was polite and took away the awkwardness in the best way I could) when I got upstairs I was the guy that set them up on the couch and made them comfortable. But they didn't catch me playboying, they saw me socializing, playboying gets talked down about about because it's an act, socializing is just enjoying people and there is nothing bad that can ever be said about that.

Playboying is asking for a mail address, socializing is giving your mail address. I totally understand the difference now, but asking for a mail address totally makes you look, not even like a playboy, it just totally messes up any continuity to the whole social process. I never ask, I either give, or get.

I think if you intentionally bring some girl, your date is gonna know and then she won't be wondering how many girls are into you, she'll be thinking "wow, this guy is working hard tonight trying to impress people". That is a hole you won't be able to dig yourself out of. Instead, tell your date how you were hanging out at this great coffee shop before you came to meet her and you were chatting with some really cool people from where ever. Tell her you might take her there next time but don't. Plan your next date close to the coffee shop and before you go to meet her make some friends at the coffee shop, depending on her personality she might just pop in. If she does, don't act surprised just seamlessly include her in what you are doing almost as if you expected she would show up. I think it would work best if you were chatting to some girls, but hanging out with new guy friends is cool too. If you can make her comfortable with new people you just met, you are golden and a socializing MF.

That's why I always make rounds to places I like before I go on a date. First, to let them know I am in town, and second cause it is so much cooler to be greeted with Okaeri than Irrashyamase~. It lets them know that if she goes home without you, it's not like you are gonna be stuck sitting somewhere alone. Hahaha.

Dude, there is some gold in what you are saying. If you could take that gold and invest it in the stockmarket,.... well, let's not get into that here :-p

Playboying is asking for a mail address, socializing is giving your mail address. I totally understand the difference now, but asking for a mail address totally makes you look, not even like a playboy, it just totally messes up any continuity to the whole social process. I never ask, I either give, or get.

I'd never even thought about it. Where do you stand on the "let's exchange mail addresses?" Does this also count as asking? What about in a group situation (as kitsune and I were discussing last night) pulling out the "ok everyone let's exchange email addresses" line?

That's why I always make rounds to places I like before I go on a date. First, to let them know I am in town, and second cause it is so much cooler to be greeted with Okaeri than Irrashyamase~. It lets them know that if she goes home without you, it's not like you are gonna be stuck sitting somewhere alone.

This makes a lot of sense actually. Although if it is your regular joint, there can be a lot of social proof from the initial welcomes, if the establishment has well-trained staff.

RC

PS Do you prefer comments here in the blog, or on the forum?

Hahaha, speaking about investing it... I'm watching you man, if I catch you canal streetin' my stuff here I will find you. I am keeping an eye out.

I think about getting or receiving e-mail addresses like this. Think about how the mood changes even slightly when the e-mail thing comes up... That whole situation is totally avoided if you just casually hand it over. I always send and the main reason was I didn't know how to receive on my phone (I still don't actually). I found that though when I sent it put the ball in their field and I don't have to put anymore thought into until I get a mail from them. No mail, oh well you win and lose, but most of the time they mail me right there on the spot. Normally I don't take out my phone unless they ask me if I got it. Usually if they do bring up the mail thing 9 times out of 10 they assume that they send you theirs, but I always tell them I will send and if they ask why I tell them it's cause I don't know how to receive. A lot of time they ask, do you want me to send you mine and I just say ok. Again, phone vibrates and I just ignore it.

""let's exchange mail addresses?" Does this also count as asking? What about in a group situation (as kitsune and I were discussing last night) pulling out the "ok everyone let's exchange email addresses" line?""

I don't really do the group thing, although I do have a plan this month to do so, but I would never in my life say something like that. I am not busting on you, but to me it is total neutral friend zone stuff that exerts no confidence whatsoever. It obviously all depends on the situation with the people involved, but that is digging way too deep into the girls' personal space to be respected as a social nuance. It's bordering needy.

I would either give out my mail to one or two, but I would be expecting they would ask and I would just hold off till they did, but if I had to, I would give my mail address to the alpha girl or the one I was most closely connected with. "Let's everyone exchange e-mails" is English circle sleepiness. I can guarantee you they will be bringing their Japanese boy friends or boyfriends next time you meet. I know it's not about speaking English, but it is total let's be friends stuff.

The thing is as Spanx said is just to not give a fuck if they mail you. Ok, your friends and her friends hung out all night and the mood is cool, but unless you are taking someone home right there, that party is over. Why work for the next one yourself? Let them figure it all out and mail you. It's easier, less stressful, and a hell of a lot more interesting. Think about how fucking insanely difficult it is to make a plan with a group of Japanese people let alone girls... Do you want to deal with that? Give them your mail address and if they mail you on the spot ignore it unless they ask you if you got it. I'm not saying not to give input, but leave the insanity to them, maybe suggest a place.

Great observations. I ran across a whole group of uni students from Hokkaido today - sat near the hot girls but ignored them and talked exclusively to the guys for the first ten minutes. Exchanged contact details with the guy who had the most personality who wanted to have a drink together - then... a chick pulls out her phone and wants to get my number. Her friend too. Now I have the whole group dynamics thing to negotiate including figuring out where the guys fit in the picture. T

They are all here for 2 more weeks. The clock is ticking, and I will try to apply some of the good lessons above to see if a deal can be closed. Will keep you posted.

Good stuff Jonno. The most important thing is patience and even better, don't even think about it. If you are calculating about her mail address she is gonna sense the haste or the detachment from the convo. Another thing about the group thing is if it's "let's everyone trade" then the girls are going to be giving their mail addys to people they don't necessarily want to give it to. I know I wouldn't be happy about that. It is cool to take charge, but not cool to give orders.

I would wait till the last absolute second to even bring it up because getting together again is just a natural thing to be discussed, and with a few openings you give them to ask they will take the opportunity. For example, if you say something like; "I know another place around the corner that is awesome on Saturday nights, I'm sure you girls would love it." What can they say except; "Sounds great!" after that they should be talking about mail. If they don't, maybe bring up the topic of how someone should contact someone.

If they don't get the hint then, and you are about to head out the door, then I would hand over my mail and tell them to put something together and call. If I had to do that I would bring my mail address up and hand my phone to the leader of the group and let her sit there and manually input my mail address into her phone. I wouldn't make it easy cause it would seem to me they are trying to sweat you out into asking for their mail. What comes around goes around. When she is finished and she mailed her address close the phone put it in your pocket and go. If I was really into them and wanted to make sure it would happen again I would give them a card. Hopefully that starts a bit of conversation in terms of who gets the card. Coolness.

the RR760 or the 645 wrote:Playboying is asking for a mail address, socializing is giving your mail address. I totally understand the difference now, but asking for a mail address totally makes you look, not even like a playboy, it just totally messes up any continuity to the whole social process.

I've never heard it put that way, but it does make sense.

the RR760 or the 645 wrote: I never ask, I either give, or get.

Been my policy for a while now. Probably because I don't want to be seen as a silly old guy chasing young women. If I want to see a girl again then I give her my number or a safe e-mail address and wait for her to chase me. That way I only have to bother with the ones who are interested. Sometimes risky, like last night when a girl showed up on my doorstep at 930pm. Fortunately there were other students around to help entertain her until the mrs went to bed and I got to take her quietly home. A beautiful creature, in the car parked in a dark lane she made me feel like a naughty teenager all over again.
She left for Korea this morning.